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New score thread broke.. so
Anarchist wrote
at 11:16 AM, Saturday February 3, 2007 EST
Well I'll go against the grain it seems and say truthfully that after playing many games I really hate the new system.

I'll try labeling my reasons with numbers.

1) The new game is LESS strategic. How? Well you can only play one way, aggressively. Seriously if you try and play a defensive game you'll AS score will get raped and even if you finish 3rd or 2nd you'll lose points cause AS score seems more heavily weighted than the traditional positional score. While you could argue that you had to play defensively in the old game, I'd simply state that you was incorrect and that strategic attacking at the right time was key to the old game. I should know I'm a good player.

2) The game is MORE luck based. Well this comes from the fact that you have to attack more since joining your territories is even more important. And by attack more I guess what I'm saying is make more risky attacks. In the old game I would NEVER attack a territory with the same number of dice.(discounting 2vs2s) e.g. 4vs4. In this game you simply have to, hell sometimes you have to attack with less dice! Clearly this style of play is dependent more on luck than the safe style of the current game.

2.1) Again backing up point 2 is the undeniable fact that dice placement is more important. Most players who have played the new game would agree with this I would think. Obviously since dice placement is random (well mostly) this increases the amount of luck involved in the game. Again this is an offshoot of the more aggressive game.

3) Alliances are screwed. Its obvious to those that have been playing that alliances take place less often in the new game. Now I wouldn't say this is because of the new game, no this is merely a period of adapting due to the fact that the best alliances are different to the last game due to the AS score system. However... I've given much thought to this and I can now say with fair confidence that the 1900 tables are gonna be terrible. Its because when you really think about it, as the 1900+ players must, allying between the 2 biggest and most far apart players is always the best alliance. While this is bad you could argue that this has always been the situation and your kinda right. BUT when the two big guys ally together all the smaller guys usually ally and fight back. Again the AS system would greatly discourage this method, fighting among yourselves would likely end in a much better score for yourself or on the coin flip if the small guys did ally together and win your score still wouldn't be as good as it would the old system.

4) This point isn't so much against the new system as it is against the ill logic shown towards the old system when discussing the 8vs8 game. People are always saying the 8vs8 end games are terrible and luck based. Now honestly how many 8vs8 games where there has been a clear leader have you ever seen switch. A few maybe. But 90% of the time the guy who's got the most stacks wins. Who has the most stacks? The guy who played better. How is this lucky?

4.1) Oh and even though some think otherwise the 8vs8 end game is still alive and well in the new game so don't even bother trying to say theres less luck because it isn't there anymore. It is.


Ok, so I'm left thinking, what is better? Well away people do get screwed like they should and... no thats it. Thats the only thing I prefer in this game and that could have been implemented in a far less game changing fashion than this.

Now I'm left thinking why the game has been changed in this way at all. I mean the scoring although different isn't really "different". Do badly and you score badly, do well and you score well. Essentially the scoring is the same but the style of play has been changed completely. I'll leave you with a good piece of advice, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

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Tech wrote
at 12:33 PM, Monday February 5, 2007 EST
"It's not the fact he brought up suicide, it's the fact he didn't give a shit when I told him it was a personal issue for me, and actually went so far as to say I was making it up. "

I believe the basic essence of the previous post was "Welcome to the internet". And, yeah, unless you can scan in some notarized documents for the public, anything you say can and will be called bullshit. *shrug* It's something one becomes accoustomed to. Sorry it bothered you so much.
Cyron wrote
at 1:32 PM, Monday February 5, 2007 EST
Rather than drag this thread offtopic more, I'll just express my surprise at the implicit acceptance of his comments even here and leave it at that.
no_Wolf wrote
at 2:28 PM, Monday February 5, 2007 EST
"Rather than drag this thread offtopic more, I'll just express my surprise at the implicit acceptance of his comments even here and leave it at that. "

Your concerns have been noted and taken into account. Thank you, and have a nice day. ^_^
jakezack wrote
at 2:38 PM, Monday February 5, 2007 EST
So anyways,

In response to Ryan’s last post, I think that trying to downplay the importance of trucing is a noble cause, and it would make the game a lot better, but I’m not sure that this system really does that. What I’ve seen happen is that players truce just like they used to and then the stronger player of the truce whittles everyone else down to one territory while the weaker strengthens his average size by attacking his ally. The result is the same as before, only it’s more frustrating for the other players. But who knows, maybe it won’t be like that, and the new system will be great.

p.s. the last time I was at the test tables, the AS counter was gone. If you do decide to make the switch, I would really like to see this back, to take away some of the guesswork.
gohstlee wrote
at 12:40 AM, Tuesday February 6, 2007 EST
So, wassup with the Test Server? There are rarely enough people there for more than one game. Tonight there are **zero**. I'd like to think that people just got tired of waiting around, so it's ahrd to build any critical mass over there. But it could also be that folks got tired of playing the new rules. Should we be just switching over with not too much of a Beta test?

My personal experience with the new rules is mildly favorable. But I haven't played enough to have a very strong opinion.

-- Gohstlee
Star Block! wrote
at 9:11 AM, Tuesday February 6, 2007 EST
It was probably about 2am in Europe when you posted that, but it is often tricky to get a game started.
JohnGalt wrote
at 12:18 PM, Tuesday February 6, 2007 EST
The complaint I would have with the new system is that it is too complicated. It makes it harder for anyone to just come and play the game. While gameplay has always been tied into the ratings, I think this new rating system makes it far more intertwined. In effect you are no longer playing a single game, but a much larger game over a long period involving every game you play. The game is what it is, I almost (almost) wish there was no ratings at all.
fuzzycat wrote
at 2:02 PM, Tuesday February 6, 2007 EST
"""The complaint I would have with the new system is that it is too complicated. It makes it harder for anyone to just come and play the game."""

Sorry but I don't get that, why makes it diffficult to just come and play the games? You don't need to fully understand the scoring system to just play the game as you see it fit.

You play for the game, not for the score, remember?
Ryan wrote
at 3:40 PM, Tuesday February 6, 2007 EST
fuzzy is right

The new rating makes it possible to just come and play the game without thinking about rating and not be surprised by the scores. (current rating is manipulated too much to play intuitively).

In other words, its not more complicated. Just play how you would play dicewars and you will be rewarded when you do well. Maybe it seems complicated because you are trying to figure out the scoring system to look for ways to manipulate it. In my opinion its not worth it. The best way to get more points with the news system is to simply play well.
Alpha1 wrote
at 11:04 PM, Tuesday February 6, 2007 EST
i think some people are here just to play and enjoy the game and not care a bit about the scores.

but there are also people who play for score/rank. that is why we report the top players ranking. if not, why bother have such a ranking?

no system is perfect. even when people are not trying to manipulate it, the problem(s) will surface eventually.
KDice - Multiplayer Dice War
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