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New score thread broke.. so
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Anarchist wrote
at 11:16 AM, Saturday February 3, 2007 EST
Well I'll go against the grain it seems and say truthfully that after playing many games I really hate the new system.
I'll try labeling my reasons with numbers. 1) The new game is LESS strategic. How? Well you can only play one way, aggressively. Seriously if you try and play a defensive game you'll AS score will get raped and even if you finish 3rd or 2nd you'll lose points cause AS score seems more heavily weighted than the traditional positional score. While you could argue that you had to play defensively in the old game, I'd simply state that you was incorrect and that strategic attacking at the right time was key to the old game. I should know I'm a good player. 2) The game is MORE luck based. Well this comes from the fact that you have to attack more since joining your territories is even more important. And by attack more I guess what I'm saying is make more risky attacks. In the old game I would NEVER attack a territory with the same number of dice.(discounting 2vs2s) e.g. 4vs4. In this game you simply have to, hell sometimes you have to attack with less dice! Clearly this style of play is dependent more on luck than the safe style of the current game. 2.1) Again backing up point 2 is the undeniable fact that dice placement is more important. Most players who have played the new game would agree with this I would think. Obviously since dice placement is random (well mostly) this increases the amount of luck involved in the game. Again this is an offshoot of the more aggressive game. 3) Alliances are screwed. Its obvious to those that have been playing that alliances take place less often in the new game. Now I wouldn't say this is because of the new game, no this is merely a period of adapting due to the fact that the best alliances are different to the last game due to the AS score system. However... I've given much thought to this and I can now say with fair confidence that the 1900 tables are gonna be terrible. Its because when you really think about it, as the 1900+ players must, allying between the 2 biggest and most far apart players is always the best alliance. While this is bad you could argue that this has always been the situation and your kinda right. BUT when the two big guys ally together all the smaller guys usually ally and fight back. Again the AS system would greatly discourage this method, fighting among yourselves would likely end in a much better score for yourself or on the coin flip if the small guys did ally together and win your score still wouldn't be as good as it would the old system. 4) This point isn't so much against the new system as it is against the ill logic shown towards the old system when discussing the 8vs8 game. People are always saying the 8vs8 end games are terrible and luck based. Now honestly how many 8vs8 games where there has been a clear leader have you ever seen switch. A few maybe. But 90% of the time the guy who's got the most stacks wins. Who has the most stacks? The guy who played better. How is this lucky? 4.1) Oh and even though some think otherwise the 8vs8 end game is still alive and well in the new game so don't even bother trying to say theres less luck because it isn't there anymore. It is. Ok, so I'm left thinking, what is better? Well away people do get screwed like they should and... no thats it. Thats the only thing I prefer in this game and that could have been implemented in a far less game changing fashion than this. Now I'm left thinking why the game has been changed in this way at all. I mean the scoring although different isn't really "different". Do badly and you score badly, do well and you score well. Essentially the scoring is the same but the style of play has been changed completely. I'll leave you with a good piece of advice, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". |
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fuzzycat wrote
at 1:16 AM, Wednesday February 7, 2007 EST if players put a lot of energy into it, to show up with a high score, they can also be loaded with understanding a slightly complexer scoring algoritmus.
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aliaiactasunt wrote
at 6:25 AM, Wednesday February 7, 2007 EST Jakezack is right with his call for putting the AS-counter back on. There are two possible intentions with the new scoring:
1. leave the game as it is, just make the ranks fairer, then indeed, ppl shouldn't be too much aware of the new system. Just wait and let them get used to the new system. BUT 2. Changing gameplay (e.g. less trucing, taking higher risks, more trying to conquer the whole map, etc.) Then ppl need to see the AS. I played quite a few games with AS shown, then played 2 without it shown. Everybody was back to old strategies. Maybe that was coincidents, but maybe this experience might be usefull. I get the feeling that my opinion contradicts Ryan's quite often though and since I still have fun playing this game, I trust in you Ryan ;)... |
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Ryan wrote
at 8:54 AM, Wednesday February 7, 2007 EST "no system is perfect. even when people are not trying to manipulate it, the problem(s) will surface eventually."
I agree, however this is a defeatist point. I believe in the possibility of improvements. |
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algios2 wrote
at 11:08 AM, Wednesday February 7, 2007 EST I might think of making an excel sheet where i put in the No. of territories of each player at start of round. This is work and reduces fun but will serve me :) So Ryan please ...
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skunker wrote
at 8:26 PM, Wednesday February 7, 2007 EST I have proposed the following idea "Reform the point system: 7th(-25), 6th(-20), 5th(-15), 4th(-10), 3rd (0), 2nd (10), 1st (30)". Perhaps it is not perfect, but the point system need to be improved.
(1) In the early game only luck and cowering ability makes the difference between 4th and 7th places, yet there is a huge point difference. Even good players who are unlucky early in the game will often have to cower in a corner the rest of the game to preserve their points. These people have already lost and should be free to move onto a game they have a chance of winning. To address this issue the penalties for 7th through 4th should be more uniform and lower. Also, as noted elsewhere, a bonus should be added for eliminating a player (perhaps 5pts). This would create an incentive to remove these cowering players…doing everyone a favor. (2) Because the difference between 2nd and 3rd is small, people are too willing to secure second in the form of a treaty once one or two players become dominant. Also, 2nd and 3rd are usually arbitrarily assigned by the 1st place player, when he or she chooses who they would like to eliminate first. If the difference between 1st and 2nd were increased people would play more for the top spot. The scores could be reassigned to something like this 7th(-25), 6th(-20), 5th(-15), 4th(-10), 3rd (0), 2nd (10), 1st (30) + a 5 pt bonus for each player eliminated. Currently, players only spend a small portion of their game time fighting or strategizing to be #1 (i.e. the fun and exciting part of the game), and spend far too much time cowering and negotiating to preserve or gain a few points (i.e. the boring and frustrating part of the game). Also see ideas… “points for knocking people out, not just for finish...would cut down on some of the spectating instead of playing� And “Abolish the score system� |