Forum
High Diplomacy at the High Tables
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skrumgaer wrote
at 6:35 PM, Saturday April 14, 2007 EDT
“I see too many flags.� --skrumgaer
After observing play at the 1900+ tables, I got the impression that the top players are very cautious—they don’t want to take risks that jeopardize their Elo scores. Hence, lots of flags. Or, as I have commented several times while watching, too many flags. Also, there is evidence of high diplomacy: players using each others’ names instead of their colors, players reminding each other of favors given in previous games, open identification of pga’s, and a new one on me: open identification of pge’s, or “pre-game enemies�. I decided that some statistical analysis was in order. Are diplomatic skills more important at the higher-ranking tables? Do players get killed off faster at the lower ranking tables? I collected data for 131 games in progress. Of these, 8 were at the 1900+ tables, 19 at the 1700+ tables, 30 at the 1500+ tables, and 74 at the no-limit tables. Obviously, the number of observations is skewed in favor of the lower ranking tables, so the stats for them are more reliable. My findings: 1. The game gets less deadly as players advance to higher tables, except for the highest rank of tables. The linear regressions suggest that if all games were played out to a single player finish, zero limit games would last 43 rounds on average, 1500+ games would last 62 rounds, 1700+ games would last about 80 rounds, but 1900+ games would be over in about 35 rounds. But keep in mind that the data are less reliable for the higher-level tables. 2. The average number of players for a game in progress is between 5 and 6 players for all levels of tables, but the average age of a game in progress is between 10 and 12 rounds for the lower level of tables, but only 8 rounds for the 1900+ tables. My hypothesis: The highest-Elo players are so sensitive about big losses that they suicide quickly if they have bad starting positions to minimize their dom point losses. So the 1900+ tables have an unusually large kill rate in the first three rounds. After that, there is some maneuvering for rank, minor transfers of territory, players reminding each other of their pre-game obligations, flags, and the game is over. Remedy: A remedy suggests that there is a problem, and I don’t know if there is a problem here that has to be remedied. Something else I observed, thought, is that lesser-ranked players are discouraged from sitting at the table. But I will offer a remedy for that in a different thread. |
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Grunvagr wrote
at 11:41 AM, Sunday April 15, 2007 EDT skrumgaer, your last example might just be the worst possible score for that player
You didnt mention the ratings of other players at the table, which impacts the entire calculation of score. -10, -10 might be the worst possible score for that person, whereas if he was the highest rated at the table, the same 7th might have been -13,-14 or so. |
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i_break_truces wrote
at 11:56 AM, Sunday April 15, 2007 EDT ill second that, kwiz.. pge4life
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i_break_truces wrote
at 11:57 AM, Sunday April 15, 2007 EDT skumgaer:
what grun is saying, and is true, is that if you die before round 4 you get the *worst* dom score possible. |
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skrumgaer wrote
at 12:59 PM, Sunday April 15, 2007 EDT Grunvagr: "-10, -10 might be the worst possible score for that person,
whereas if he was the highest rated at the table, the same 7th might have been -13,-14 or so. " By your own reasoning, if he had been the lowest ranking at the table, the same 7th might have been -6, -7, or so. So he might beg to be killed before the fourth round. So my original surmise stands unrefuted (not true, necessarily, but not yet refuted). |
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skrumgaer wrote
at 1:19 PM, Sunday April 15, 2007 EDT Grun,
Here is an example, like you mentioned, of a higher-elo player being killed in the second round. He was down to one five-stack even before his first turn came, lost a 5 v 3 attack, and was killed in the second round. He had the highest elo at a zero-limit table. asfasdasfasrf's turn {deleted) defeated 7v2: 23 to 7 (2,4,2,6,4,4,1 to 3,4) (deleted) finishes 7th. Rank: 942nd Rating: -30 1572. (-14 for 7th and -16 for dominance) (deleted) stands up A low-elo player would have his best possible dom in this situation. |
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i_break_truces wrote
at 1:41 PM, Sunday April 15, 2007 EDT skumgaer.. you are wrong..
points awarded for dominance by rank is fixed for each individual game.. if someone dies before round 4, no matter who it is, they get the worst possible dom score *they* could get. if they are the lowest elo at the table, that score is still higher than the others, but if they managed to survive and grow, or if someone dies before them (prior to round 4) they would get more points than dying first. Going out first, before round 4, is the worst possible situation.. you cannot do worse. |
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skrumgaer wrote
at 1:55 PM, Sunday April 15, 2007 EDT i_break_truces:
It has been mentioned by someone in this thread, but not in the kdice wiki, that the AS is zero for the first three rounds for everyone. If this is true, it would be better to say not that dom is not computed for the first three rounds, but it is computed at AS = 0 for the first three rounds. So if I survive to Round 4 with one country, I would then have an AS greater than zero, and would not have such a bad dom score if I get killed then. So, if it is true that the only difference in the computations is that AS = 0 in the first three rounds, you and Grun are right. It would be nice if we had a set of official (ryan-derived) archives with all the rules and stuff. |
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i_break_truces wrote
at 5:08 PM, Sunday April 15, 2007 EDT it is true; and agreed.
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Kenjamin wrote
at 7:41 PM, Sunday April 15, 2007 EDT I still don't understand dominance.. i'm gonna go look for a thread that explains it....
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Gwedo wrote
at 12:03 AM, Monday April 16, 2007 EDT From everything I have gathered after reading all of these threads is that your DOM is not effected until the 4th round. You still lose DOM prior to the actual calculations. After the 3rd round your DOM can get better or worse depending on the outcome.
Hence for example I lose all my attacks (good or bad attacks from the start) then I am taken down to one land. If I get left alone until the 6th round of play then get taken out my score could be worse then if I had a mercy killing on round three What I am trying to say is that if I get a bad start and get taken out in round 3 and I lose -10 for 7th -10 for DOM. Same game scenario but I was taken out in round 7 with the same bad start I would lose maybe -11 for 7th -12 for DOM. It would stand to reason that I want to have a mercy killing quick before I can lose extra DOM because I have players all around thinking they are being merciful by keeping me alive until latter rounds. |